Fun fact: Copyright

Did you know…

…that using the copyrighted logo of the Boston Red Sox in a Conservapedia userbox is not ok? But using the copyrighted front cover of a 2007 book release in an article on Eleanor of Aquitaine is not only ok, but also not non-encyclopeadic? It’s true!

Keep up the good work, gentlemen.


73 Responses to “Fun fact: Copyright”

  1. 1 Leopeo May 18, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    And now user AlanE, who changed the copyrighted cover with another photo, has been blocked 3 days for uploading a ‘silly image’.

  2. 2 hyperbole May 18, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    Sorry, just wanted to move the discussion thread up to here…
    It seems Mr. TK has been very active on WP as well as CP. The fun part is that he apparently registered a complaint at an internet fraud site (you know, for like Nigerian Scams, etc) about RW. After his disavowal by Andy, he’s been very quiet.
    I can’t get mad at KooKoo…the man served our country in uniform, and for me, that forgives almost anything.

  3. 3 Hyperbole May 18, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    GofG is…ta-da…the “Sheriff of CP”

  4. 4 Todd Larason May 18, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Is TK using a username or WP or just his normal IP?

  5. 5 pal May 18, 2007 at 7:01 pm

    not sure…TMT would know

  6. 6 Todd Larason May 18, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    GofG and Geo.plrd are different people, aren’t they?

  7. 7 hyperbole May 18, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Je crois que oui. Si “non”, merde!

  8. 8 darkshadow May 18, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    Yes they are different, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen GofG accused of violating the 90/10 rule, which only happens when you’re annoying the sysops with logic.

  9. 9 hyperbole May 18, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    There are more cabalists then they can imagine, even in their paranoia. La cabale n’existe pas! Vive la cabale!

  10. 10 Kelseigh May 18, 2007 at 7:30 pm

    Je ne suis pas un membre du Cabal, je suis une Canadienne!

  11. 11 La Cabale May 18, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    “Une”? Alors, J’ai cru que vous soyez “un Canadien”! Je suis idiot!

  12. 12 Kelseigh May 18, 2007 at 7:55 pm

    Hey, I’m a Nova Scotia anglo who hasn’t had a French class in 23 years, I figure I’m doin’ pretty good here!

  13. 13 La Cabale May 18, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    lol…excellent. Crazy Canucks can’t get just one freakin language like Los Estados Unidos????

  14. 14 Kelseigh May 18, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    Heh. In Halifax, you got English, French, Chinese, Arabic (Lebanese) and a growing amount of Russian. Here in Ottawa, where I am now, we get English, French (Quebec), French (Jamaica/Haiti/Africa/elsewhere), Arabic (Iraq), Chinese and a mix of other stuff. It’s what happens in crossroads cities, I guess.

  15. 15 Kelseigh May 18, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    Oh, this ought to be fun! Yet another starry-eyed idealist gets set to have her dreams crushed by the mighty Conservative.

    Popcorn…gotta get more popcorn…

  16. 16 PAL May 18, 2007 at 8:48 pm

    Actually, a few “real” conservapedians tried to create an article, I think it was maybe PhilR and Karajou and a couple of others, someone else will remember. Conservafascist pursued them into their user spaces mercilessly and deleted every attempt. If anyone has the record of that, Id love it.

  17. 17 Kelseigh May 18, 2007 at 9:42 pm

    Haha, as long as the original message was on the subject of images, here’s one that you all might like.

  18. 18 Todd Larason May 19, 2007 at 1:01 am

    And now Andy’s deleted the copyrighted picture, following a complaint from the author of the book. Wonder if AlanE will get an apology from TK?

  19. 19 Bosack May 19, 2007 at 3:11 am

    It’s nice that Conservapedia has a program where it hires retarded individuals as sysops. I think McDonald’s has a similar program.

  20. 20 TK May 19, 2007 at 3:28 am

    Im not TK. Im BarfBarrel

  21. 21 TK May 19, 2007 at 3:28 am

    I can’t stop these horrible socks!

  22. 22 Raptor May 19, 2007 at 5:04 am

    See what you reap, Sid?

    People posting as someone else…disavowals by Andy that aren’t, fake emails. This is the kind you are consorting with and harboring. Is it any wonder you never convinced me?

    Enjoy your assortment of “friends”.

  23. 23 Tmtoulouse May 19, 2007 at 5:24 am

    Wow, how, coherent of you TK. I can see now why CP is of such high quality

  24. 24 Raptor May 19, 2007 at 6:16 am

    “And now Andy’s deleted the copyrighted picture, following a complaint from the author of the book. Wonder if AlanE will get an apology from TK?”

    Well, Todd, no apology is due from TK. He even was so kind as to explain, on the article discussion page, how they could change the picture.

    But of course we know it was one of you, and none of you count. 😉

  25. 25 Todd Larason May 19, 2007 at 6:16 am

    Raptor, who here do you think is Sid?

  26. 26 Todd Larason May 19, 2007 at 6:35 am

    And when Alan followed those oh-so-kind directions (others can judge the kindness shown here, here and here), AlanE was blocked for three days for uploading a ‘silly’ image.

    As to whether he’s “one of us” or not, I have no idea, but as you yourself told me just last night, jumping to conclusions about peoples’ identities is bad form.

  27. 27 hyperbole May 19, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    “Raptor” is deep into seeing plots, he doesn’t even believe the disavowal. Very sad. Andy IS a lawyer, and CARES about his project, and will drop people to use harassment quickly.

  28. 28 Tmtoulouse May 19, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    The paranoia runs deep, we are all against you…every new user is a member the cabal, some are set up to immediately induce a ban through vandalism, others are plants designed to fester and nag and decay from the inside out. They are ALL against you TK, even the other sysops are starting to turn, they are going to needle and pester you. Make random changes to your talk space that only you can see and deny it! Those voices you keep hearing? They are really recorded tapes being played in hidden players around your house. Our cabal runs deep…………they are all around you TK……..the shipper of your “Guys Gone Wild” DVD is now in with us too. So is that clerk at the liquor store you think is cute……………..all after you………..all one of us……….the paranoia runs deep, so deep.

  29. 29 hyperbole May 19, 2007 at 4:57 pm

    Just to make it clear…most of the so-called “cabalists” made a very large number of good edits. They were mostly chased away for ideological reasons. Most had nothing to do with vandalism of any kind. Many were avowed liberals, many others were conservative, libertarian, and other. Many were Christians, many were not. All shared a desire to deliver truthful information so that people reading CP would not be force-fed false information without discussion or refutation. So, dream on, conspiro-theorists. Most “vandals” wanted to help. That’s it.

  30. 30 Tmtoulouse May 19, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    Exactly, and well put. The connection to vandalism has to do with one of the groups of vandals that contacted us, and we let them join in our conversation about CP, and laughed at their funny user names. While that can be construed as “giving aid and comfort” it is not in itself vandalism.

    A great deal of what we did that was “attacking” CP was really helping it. For example, one of my “elaborative” evil plans was to inject pro-science articles. I used various socks to input a bunch of very accurate, and very well sourced articles that just happen to offer some of the reams of irrefutable proof of evolution. How is this an attack? Because the SYSOPS couldn’t help but attack the articles and create a huge fuss over it. It makes them look like idiots, creates massive amounts of paralyzing “meta-discussion” and generally leaves a bad after taste in the mouth of any rational editor. The thing is, I didn’t do anything other than write good articles. All of the negative effects came from CP’s own natural reactions to it.

    Before I even started screwing with CP I was trying to help, I did a lot of really positive work there. I was met with the paranoid and oppressive gulag. That turned me off, as it did everyone else. The cabal was created in reaction to how CP treated us. The reasons for CP’s complete implosion (as much as I would like to take significant credit) lies at the doorsteps of the SYSOPS and site owner.

    We don’t even HAVE to do anything anymore, your paranoia and insanity has reached a fever pitch, you are banning most of your new users with very little evidence of any wrong doing. And attacking anyone not in the “inner circle” no matter their contributions. For christ sake LOOK at the site, its dieing, even someone as delusional as TK should be able to see things have gone bad..very bad. It might be too late for the site, but there are things you can do to try and save it. The Cabal knows what those are, and we are more than willing to work with you to bring the site out of its current plunge into oblivion. But you will have to listen to us……..

  31. 31 Todd Larason May 19, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    In my case at least, TK accused me of being ‘in the cabal’ long before I knew such a thing even existed (even if you accept the claim that rationalwiki and #cp-cabal users really were a cabal, which is stretching things quite a bit). I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that was true for the original RW people as well. In other words, to the extent there was a cabal, TK didn’t discover it, he created it.

    And I’m still waiting for Geo.plrd to come up with the evidence he’s sure must exist for my ‘conspiracy to vandalize’…

  32. 32 Tmtoulouse May 19, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    Yes, the term cabal didn’t even come up until TK started accusing us of it. We eventually just picked up the term and have been tossing it around. We don’t really believe we are a cabal, its just a way to feed the paranoia…must feed the beast.

  33. 33 La Cabale May 19, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    La Cabale n’existe pas! Vive la Cabale!

    I just hope we don’t lose our raison d’etre when cp dies on the vine.

  34. 34 AmesG May 19, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    It totally is dying. 500 edits in 9 hours is weak.

  35. 35 Tmtoulouse May 19, 2007 at 11:28 pm

    Eh, I have seen longer droughts, near 14 hours. But they are “filling” edits in with tons of page protections, deletions, ect. The best unit is to search for just main space article changes. These are really the only thing that moves cp forwards. They were right around 500 in 24 hours, and if you remove self marked “minor” edits, it was 30-35 hours for 500.

  36. 36 Kelseigh May 20, 2007 at 2:33 am

    Andy (and a lot of others) seem to be overly focused on the artificial goal of 10,000 articles. I wonder what’ll happen when they get there and realize that nothing will change as a result?

  37. 37 Tmtoulouse May 20, 2007 at 2:42 am

    Set a new goal of 11,000 articles, or something. Its the kind of motivational training they teach you at “how to teach homeschool kids camp.”

    Kelseigh, you were asking about rationalwiki right? E-mail me, if you want the details.

  38. 38 Raptor15 May 20, 2007 at 3:20 am

    The first time I saw anything written from TK about some “cabal” it wasn’t anything to do with an actual, literal, cabal, but just his own term to describe the shocking personal insults used by many of you against Andy and his family, on IRC.

    I do believe it was a debating trick, a deftly applied dodge, when someone sought linkage between TK’s term, and applying it to some conspiracy, some actual entity.

    It doesn’t really matter what you think you are, cabal, association, etc. If you take coordinated actions, discuss amongst yourselves privately about how to make people or things look foolish, and how to subvert what you do not like, you are.

  39. 39 Tmtoulouse May 20, 2007 at 3:27 am

    “If you take coordinated actions, discuss amongst yourselves privately about how to make people or things look foolish, and how to subvert what you do not like, you are.”

    Ohhh that makes us a PAC!!

  40. 40 Kelseigh May 20, 2007 at 3:41 am

    Go Go Gadget tax-free status!

  41. 41 Todd Larason May 20, 2007 at 3:56 am

    Yes, TK gets pissy when people expect him to use words to actually mean what they mean.

    And calling an out gay man ‘gay’ isn’t a ‘shocking personal insult’.

  42. 42 Geo.plrd May 20, 2007 at 6:32 am

    Boo Hoo! Someone’s mad because we are still functioning. Go get lives!

  43. 43 tmtoulouse May 20, 2007 at 6:36 am

    Yea Geo, CP is doing great, better than ever. Must be nice being able to personally review every edit now that you get them at about 10 an hour. Woo hoo! Watch out wikipedia!

  44. 44 Geo.plrd May 20, 2007 at 6:40 am

    Really well i am enjoying the luxury of editing every page, oh im sorry you can’t because you are a terrorist. Go get a life

  45. 45 tmtoulouse May 20, 2007 at 6:45 am

    I suggest you do start editing every page…because no one else is! Get in there and create some content…or whatever it is you guys do at CP. I stopped giving a shit about editing pages a LONG time ago. “Get a life” is a fairly weak insult. It usually is a reflection of accusers own insecurities in his..ummm..value. But thats okay you are “site sheriff” at one of the great wikis of the have a life.

  46. 46 Geo.plrd May 20, 2007 at 6:55 am

    Nice attempt at Pyschology, Shrinky Dink, I am not the wiki molester here

  47. 47 tmtoulouse May 20, 2007 at 6:57 am

    No just molesting that bottle. Put it down man. Sober up. I am out for the evening…

  48. 48 Geo.plrd May 20, 2007 at 7:06 am

    Your skills are par, my friend. Accuse someone of being drunk and shoot their credibility to hell. Speaking of which, how do enjoy being one of the ringleaders of a international ring of terrorists?

  49. 49 lanfranc May 20, 2007 at 11:05 am

    What did I say about calling people terrorists, Geo? I say “please don’t”.

    How about commenting on the blog entries instead?


  50. 50 Catherine May 20, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    For sysops who claim we are not wanted on CP, they sure spend a lot of time defending themselves here. What really cracks me up is a created over twenty absolutely bogus articles on CP before I was banned (under another name) and they’re still there! What’s even funnier is when people edit my articles about nonexistant people, places and events.

  51. 51 Bosack May 20, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Terroism is in the eye of the beholder.

    Andy was seduced by the Dark Side of Conservapedia. He ceased to be Andy and BECAME Aschlafly. When that happened, the good man who was Andy was destroyed. So what I told you was TRUE… from a certain point of view.

    Geo.plrd: “A certain point of view?”

    Geo, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

  52. 52 johnson May 20, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    They have become very paranoid over at CP. I edited a few history articles with what I thought were non-controversial statements (and I included links to primary sources). On one occasion I was banned as a “vandal” and on another as a “member of the Icewedge cabal.” The site is dying, and for people with conservative leanings, an embarrassment.

  53. 53 Kelseigh May 20, 2007 at 4:32 pm

    I’ll be honest, when you can easily find gems like this one from RobS:

    “Ok, I suppose we can articulate more about Gaia, neo-paganism, and eco-feminists, and how they have infiltrated the environmental movement. But all that still needs to be kept separate from the various environmental organizations with links to foreign intelligence sources and terrorism. And the environmental organizations on the domestic terrorism watchlist might have to be separate from that (maybe not).”

    …then other sorts of paranoia can’t be far off.

  54. 54 Linus May 20, 2007 at 11:17 pm

    Actually, using a copyrighted image in a userbox is not fair use, it’s a copyvio. The book cover is, however, _not_ a copyvio, but simple fair use.

  55. 55 lanfranc May 20, 2007 at 11:43 pm

    Linus: “Actually, using a copyrighted image in a userbox is not fair use, it’s a copyvio. The book cover is, however, _not_ a copyvio, but simple fair use.”

    I’m not exactly up to date on how fair use applies to images, but I find it difficult to see how that can be the case. The image of the book cover was reproduced in its entirety, on an article that had nothing to do with the book, and with no attribution to the artist or the source. Also, I note that it was later removed at the request of the copyright holder.


  56. 56 Linus May 21, 2007 at 1:20 am

    I’m not defending them, they were wrong. However, see the Wikipedia policies in the subject.

  57. 57 PAL May 21, 2007 at 1:34 am

    Commenting on a few of the things above, I do hope some conservative, rational voices appear on the new site.

    There certainly ARE eco-terrorists in this country, but not very many. There have been a few infamous incidents. Most “environmentalists” have nothing to do with those few people.

  58. 58 prof0705 May 21, 2007 at 7:54 pm

    I love how they killed this article. Seems like Andy is using Kennewick man as a means of sliding in the “fact” that there may have been others there before. As an anthropology student, I just have to laugh at alot about this site.

  59. 59 Kelseigh May 21, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    I wonder if Auld Nick is gonna point out that you can’t have a 9300 year old Kennewick man if the world is only 6000 years and three days old.

  60. 60 PAL May 21, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    BTW, i think tk thinks you are me

  61. 61 prof0705 May 21, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    Did you see how the Glorious Leader is now pointing out dispute as to who the first people in the New World were? Granted there are a few that subscribe to the model of non-Asian ancestors, but that is like saying that one dissenter out of 1000 constitutes dispute. I guess his definition of “fact” is different than mine.

  62. 62 Kelseigh May 21, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    Well, I do look pretty hot in a lab coat…

  63. 63 Kelseigh May 21, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    Oh, Prof. That’s what I get for learning to read.

    I still look hot in a lab coat, though.

  64. 64 Todd Larason May 21, 2007 at 9:25 pm

    Back to the original topic of this post — I too suspect that using the book cover could have been covered under fair use. That’s not the argument TK made, though — he scoffed, rather rudely, at the very idea that the picture might be copyrighted. In fact, he seemed to think that it was more than 100 years old, despite clearly being drawn on a computer.


  65. 65 darkshadow May 22, 2007 at 12:13 am

    The problem is TK takes everything so personally and he’s never wrong. He’s had so many things explained to him in a way a 5 year old could figure it out and he’s still confused.

    see here for the most recent lack of knowledge

  66. 66 darkshadow May 22, 2007 at 12:14 am

    and uhoh …. Hoji is on TK’s radar now:

    02:58, 21 May 2007 TK (Talk | contribs) restored “Category:Liberal Falsehoods” (2 revisions restored: Hoji, this may be your undoing.)

  67. 67 Kelseigh May 22, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Go, TK, go! Hoji is one of the only things remaining that give you any credibility at all!

  68. 68 Geo.plrd May 22, 2007 at 4:50 am

    Who the hell are you?

  69. 69 prof0705 May 22, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    The Liberal devil?

  70. 71 darkshadow May 22, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    To quote an icon: “I’m Bart Simpson, who the hell are you?”

  71. 72 Kelseigh May 22, 2007 at 5:49 pm

    Oh, you and your false gods!

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